For Science Students

[Ayesha Asif333]

this just reaffirms my point that there is no evidence of god existing

very simple, there is no evidence of god

U really don't get what i mean to say by God
Possibly this video will make you understand better

 

[Ayesha Asif333]

People who claim there Is no God, just because they can not see Him or because science hasn’t proved it., those are the ones who fail to understand the meaning of God, and have little idea of nature of – call it the special intelligence or Allah or Lord or the creator or a supreme deity beyond our human comprehension, which cannot be seen, Our senses are limited and we little knowledge. But we all know God exists….How? Why? Science is merely just a part of religion at large and just reaffirms our faith in God, because when study the creation including ourselves we get to know more, we get to know more about the power of God e.g if we look at a flower we will think why is this flower here …it is here for a reason…but what is the reason….God knows..why does god know …because only the creator can tell you why He created it ….then you can move on and look at the beauty of flower…this will make u think that if the flower is so beautiful then how much more beautiful its creator would be, do the same for all the other things. For those who have a common sense , they can see in the structure of the heavens and the earth, in the alternation of the night and day and where ever they will look they will find in it the sign of God. That’s why a man who ponders over the creation of heavens and earth treads on the path leading to the discovery of his creator.

 

[Ayesha Asif333]

A wise an observant man will learn lessons from the system of nature and will be convinced to belief that all power and glory rests with one God only, but an ignorant person will shut his eyes to all the proofs of God’s existence

 

[Ayesha Asif333]

strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

so science requires proof whereas religion requires faith

It is not only the matter of faith, there is proof the word of Allah is, the Quran is the PROOF. a clear proof , the truth.....because it is perfect in every sense and we find no error there in, and the beauty of Quran is that it challenges us to study science in order to come closer to God( that entity which is out of the scope of space, time a mass)
WHO created space time mass, it was that power which we call God. Time itself is the creation of God so what was before time, Allah and who generated life it was Allah

 

[Ayesha Asif333]

Once you understand who god is then it automatically becomes obvious that it is not for us(mankind) to prove God's existence scientifically. Because science requires direct proof something which could be seen, something which can be experimented on. AND Newton understood this and so did Albert, tha Science has LIMITS . that it cannot stand on its own. Science can only proof of something that is perceivable through the 5 senses, what is beyond its ability to comprehend they cannot.
So coming to the point......If science cannot proof of the existence of something doesn't mean it is not there .
e.g what if all the human beings on earth where born deaf, they were not given the sense of hearing, then how would they ever get to prove that sound exists, how on earth will the scientists ever prove to us how it feels like to hear!

 

[teachyourself]

Once you understand who god is then it automatically becomes obvious that it is not for us(mankind) to prove God's existence scientifically. Because science requires direct proof something which could be seen, something which can be experimented on. AND Newton understood this and so did Albert, tha Science has LIMITS . that it cannot stand on its own. Science can only proof of something that is perceivable through the 5 senses, what is beyond its ability to comprehend they cannot.
So coming to the point......If science cannot proof of the existence of something doesn't mean it is not there .
e.g what if all the human beings on earth where born deaf, they were not given the sense of hearing, then how would they ever get to prove that sound exists, how on earth will the scientists ever prove to us how it feels like to hear!

first read the tafsirs of the quran, understand what it says, realize the errors in it because there are errors in it, then think about it rationally without blind faith, read some research on biases, perception, etc

as for the other stuff you said about god they are only claims, hyperbole nothing concrete no proof, it is something like an ideological argument on your part

the presence of sound can be proven via vibrations, similarly dark-energy and dark matter were detected by their impact on the universe distortion of light and gravitational effects

and throwing around names of scientists is a reflection of the religious mind set that is not rational, using arguments based on authority rather than rationale and proof, it changes nothing

 

[Ayesha Asif333]

as for the other stuff you said about god they are only claims, hyperbole nothing concrete no proof, it is something like an ideological argument on your part

Even highly-specialized scientists will often pursue a certain line of thought, and explore the implications of certain theory while rejecting others, based on nothing more than intuitive preferences, and their sense of what is elegant and right.

Most people who reject the religion they once accepted will claim to have done so in favor of the reasonable, clear-cut answers provided by logic and science. When asked to explain the existence of the universe, they’ll mention the Big Bang and M Theories; when asked to explain the existence of humans, they’ll mention evolution.

When pressed to explain any of the above, however, they soon realize that they actually understand very little. They were exhibiting blind faith – accepting the theories without comprehending them.

 

[Ayesha Asif333]

the presence of sound can be proven via vibrations,

Via vibrations, yes but how would we possibly know the thing which is vibrating is sound and not anything else, since everything vibrates, keeping in mind the conditions i've given you

 

[Ayesha Asif333]

and throwing around names of scientists is a reflection of the religious mind set that is not rational, using arguments based on authority rather than rationale and proof, it changes nothing

Actually if we analyse you're the one being unreasonable - since u weren't able to provide me with a good logical answer for God NOT existing
Ever heard of majority is authority....and since the scientists are people who are suppose to give meaning to science, They themselves believe in God, means they are crossing there limits of rationality. if you want i can provide you with a long list of names.
Check the number of scientists who have converted to Islam too

 

[Ayesha Asif333]

first read the tafsirs of the quran, understand what it says, realize the errors in it because there are errors in it, then think about it rationally without blind faith, read some research on biases, perception, etc

Let me make it clear to you Islam is the only religion in which you can find balance between the seen and the unseen world
U will find extremists in this world, people who are blindly following religion and the others like to, tooooo rational and buried deep down in the midst of ignorance
U know, i love science and i appreciate it coz of all the good it has bought and made life easier

 

[Ayesha Asif333]

realize the errors in it because there are errors in it,

I have read the translation and tafsir and then to realized it is the truth and the only truth
The Quran is the last revelation, and a proof not only to the pagan Arabs one thousand four hundred years ago, but also to the scientists of today. Perhaps one of the most remarkable qualities of it is the complete consistency between the Quran and most of the discoveries of modern science, and in some cases pre-empting facts discovered within the last twenty years. One of the first Western scientists to make a serious study of this subject was Maurrice Bucaille, who wrote a book called The Bible, the Quran and Science. In this book, he compared the statements concerning natural and scientific data in the Bible and the Quran. He concluded: "The Quran follows on from the two Revelations that preceded it and is not only free from contradictions in its narrations, the sign of the various human manipulations to found in the gospels, but provides a quality all of its own for those who examine it objectively and in the light of science, i.e. its complete agreement with modern scientific data. What is more, statements are to be found in it that are connected with science: and yet it is unthinkable that a man of Muhammad's time could have been the author of them. Modern scientific knowledge therefore allows us to understand certain verses of the Quran which, until now, it has been impossible to interpret
one simple and clear example
The Greek philosopher Democritus (460-361 BC) advanced the theory that matter was composed of tiny, indivisible particles called Atoms. Modern science has discovered that there is the Atom, but that Atom is divisible. The Quran states:

"He is aware of an atom's weight in the heavens and on the earth, and even anything smaller than that..."
[Noble Quran 34:3]
Amazing isn't it!?

 

[teachyourself]

Even highly-specialized scientists will often pursue a certain line of thought, and explore the implications of certain theory while rejecting others, based on nothing more than intuitive preferences, and their sense of what is elegant and right.

of course scientists pursue a line of thought, sometimes seemingly crazy, quantum mehcanics is a very good example, even einstein found it weird but all their assumptions are tested, then the hypothesis is rejected or failue-to-reject, NEVER as accepted because new evidence can lead to the previously 'un-rejected' hypothesis to be rejected

When pressed to explain any of the above, however, they soon realize that they actually understand very little. They were exhibiting blind faith – accepting the theories without comprehending them.

for the big bang there is proof, read it and understand it, same goes for evolution in-fact evolution is an accepted fact, with the big bang more evidence is needed to understand the exact nature of it, if evidence in favor of some other theory comes along then that will be taken into consideration as well

go online do your own research do not take my word for it

 

[teachyourself]

Let me make it clear to you Islam is the only religion in which you can find balance between the seen and the unseen world
U will find extremists in this world, people who are blindly following religion and the others like to, tooooo rational and buried deep down in the midst of ignorance
U know, i love science and i appreciate it coz of all the good it has bought and made life easier

there is no such thing as too rational, the only thing rational people do is explore and understand with evidence whatever they do not understand and simply reject claims without evidence, also they are comfortable with not knowing stuff (and the uncertainty that comes along with it) until they find evidence

and as for islam or any other religion it is just simply a collection of irrational claims

 

[teachyourself]

Via vibrations, yes but how would we possibly know the thing which is vibrating is sound and not anything else, since everything vibrates, keeping in mind the conditions i've given you

different wavelengths

also before making such assumptions for hypothetical scenarios you must realise that it can have a LOT of implications for a species, for example most people think snakes are deaf but they just have a different system to sense their environment through vibrations, without such a system snakes would probably not have survived, so when you say "what if we were deaf?" and do not provide another means to sense the environment you pretty much put the entire species at the risk of having died off, let alone evolving to the extent to become scientists

 

[teachyourself]

Actually if we analyse you're the one being unreasonable - since u weren't able to provide me with a good logical answer for God's NOT existing
Ever heard of majority is authority....and since the scientists are people who are suppose to give meaning to science, They themselves believe in God, means they are crossing there limits of rationality. if you want i can provide you with a long list of names.
Check the number of scientists who have converted to Islam too

it is not a logical argument but rather a matter of evidence, however, if you want a logical argument (which is useless really) then look at the problems of predestination and free will, the only response theologians have (including mohammad) we cannot question the almighty-god, how can an almighty being not solve the problem of predestination and free-will, or they simply overlook the contradiction

"majority is authority" applies to a democratic process NOT science until and unless there is evidence to support the claim, so for example for Global Warming when they claim that the majority of scientists have consensus, they have introduced that idea to convince politicians and the general public, however, what really matters is the evidence

and as for the idea that scientists are supposed to give meaning, it is not a religion where their authority cannot be challenged, infact in science authority does not matter, any scientists can come in and challenge/over-rule the idea with evidence

limits to rationality?, it is this very approach that ended the scientific inquiry of the Islamic Golden Era

as for the scientists who believe in god, they cannot prove the existence of god, so their claim, reputation, authority in this regards does not matter, in science only evidence is accepted NOT authority

 

[teachyourself]

The Greek philosopher Democritus (460-361 BC) advanced the theory that matter was composed of tiny, indivisible particles called Atoms. Modern science has discovered that there is the Atom, but that Atom is divisible. The Quran states:

"He is aware of an atom's weight in the heavens and on the earth, and even anything smaller than that..."
[Noble Quran 34:3]
Amazing isn't it!?

the idea of atoms was as you pointed out is old, known to people, muhammad was a trader/merchant, so speaking to different people and getting different ideas was not to difficult and considering he was not stupid (though un-educated) does not mean that he could not think up of anything smaller than atom to support the claim of an all knowing deity, i have read/analysed the quran, there is no part of it as a miracle, if you want to see the quran as a miracle go ahead no one is stopping you

as for theories/hypothesis turning out to be proven later does not mean that you should take someone's word for it, you should wait until it is proven, these philosophers have been wrong many times, for example aristotle's idea that heavier objects would fall at a quicker rate, the example was of a feather and rock (i think) and idiots accepted it not challenging him until Galileo challenged the idea

as for the quran's/islam's miracle what about the part where four witnesses for a woman's rape are needed (as if a rapist is gonna rape in public saying, "hey guys check me out i am raping a chick"), sure in the quran it is for accusing a woman but when the meaning is extended and applied in practical life, it goes both ways, if it is just those extremists (claimed to be a minority) taking it the wrong way and the majority of muslims don't; then why don't the majority of muslims get it changed?, why don't they challenge it? because of the lack of rationality and the lack of courage to question as a result of dogmatic beliefs

what about a woman's witness being half of a man and muhammad explaining that a woman's mind is deficient

the consummation of marriage with a girl as soon as she attains puberty

the list of idiotic crap just goes on and on, homosexuals: kill them, adulterers: kill them, apostates: kill them, etc

 

[teachyourself]

Modern scientific knowledge therefore allows us to understand certain verses of the Quran which, until now, it has been impossible to interpret

quran's scientific claims are plain simple wrong, there is no clear proof in quran's verses, all people do is use pattern recognition based upon their biases, choosing to see "proofs" where they do not exist and claim it to be the science of quran, if you would have done your research based upon evidence objectively (this means material that opposes the quran being a sicentific miracle) rather than conjecture you would have realized this

as for maurice he made the same mistake, not well informed enough his emotional need to believe in god lead him to make assumptions that are not warranted

 

[Ayesha Asif333]

and as for islam or any other religion it is just simply a collection of irrational claims

have read/analysed the quran, there is no part of it as a miracle,

the list of idiotic crap just goes on and on, homosexuals: kill them, adulterers: kill them, apostates: kill them, etc

Would'nt it be better if you would have said nothing! Speak only when you are sure that your words are better than your silence and do not say anything untill you have full knowledge and understanding of what you will say

 

[Ayesha Asif333]

for the big bang there is proof, read it and understand it, same goes for evolution in-fact evolution is an accepted fact, with the big bang more evidence is needed to understand the exact nature of it, if evidence in favor of some other theory comes along then that will be taken into consideration as well

Oh really, then can you post the picture of the common ancestor on this thread because i wanna see how he looks like .... i want proof

 

[Ayesha Asif333]

as for the quran's/islam's miracle what about the part where four witnesses for a woman's rape are needed (as if a rapist is gonna rape in public saying, "hey guys check me out i am raping a chick"), sure in the quran it is for accusing a woman but when the meaning is extended and applied in practical life, it goes both ways, if it is just those extremists (claimed to be a minority) taking it the wrong way and the majority of muslims don't; then why don't the majority of muslims get it changed?, why don't they challenge it? because of the lack of rationality and the lack of courage to question as a result of dogmatic beliefs

“The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them a hundred stripes. Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if you believe in God and the Last Day; and let a party of believers witness their punishment” (Q.XXIV-2,3)

The Prophet (PBUH) punished adulterers by stoning them to death. The same penalty was applied by the caliphs after him.

Islam, however, does not condemn anyone to death by stoning unless adultery is proven beyond any doubt, because when the adulterers are married, they have no genuine justification for committing adultery. Fornicators of both sexes are penalized by flogging only and are not stoned to death.

The Prophet (PBUH) says, “stop inflicting the prescribed penalties when you have doubts”. A dubious crime in contrast to an obvious one, is worthy of commutation. The punishment for adultery or fornication can only be applied if four valid witnesses declare that they have actually seen the act, otherwise there is no penalty.

Knowing that Islam prohibits such invasion of privacy as spying and forced entry, proof of adultery, as required by Islam, becomes almost impossible, unless the crime is flagrantly committed in public. Such a public display would mean that the persons involved are openly propagating lewdness and debasing public morals; and every citizen of sound judgment should consider the Islamic penalty for such a crime justly merited by the offenders.

Islam checks false accusations by prescribing the penalty of flogging for anyone who accuses man or woman of adultery or fornication and does not produce four witnesses to support this charge.

“And those who launch a charge against chaste woman, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations), flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their evidence ever after, for such persons are wicked transgressor; unless they repent thereafter and mend (their conduct); for God is oft-forgiving, most merciful” (Q.XXIV-4,5)

This penalty discourages irresponsible accusation which would cause familial discord and it also checks the propagation of wicked rumors which lead to slander and defamation of character.

what about a woman's witness being half of a man and muhammad explaining that a woman's mind is deficient

It is not true that two female witnesses are always considered as equal to only one male witness. It is true only in certain cases. There are about five verses in the Qurân that mention witnesses, without specifying male or female. There is only one verse in the Quran, that says two female witnesses are equal to one male witness. This verse is Surah Baqarah, chapter 2 verse 282. This is the longest verse in the Qurân and deals with financial transactions. It says:

"Oh! ye who believe!
When ye deal with each other,
in transactions involving future obligation
in a fixed period of time
reduce them to writing and get two witnesses
out of your own men and if there are not two men,
then a man and two women, such as ye choose,
for witnesses so that if one of them errs
the other can remind her."
[Al-Qurân 2:282]

This verse of the Qurân deals only with financial transactions. In such cases, it is advised to make an agreement in writing between the parties and take two witnesses, preferably both of which should be men only. In case you cannot find two men, then one man and two women would suffice.

For instance, suppose a person wants to undergo an operation for a particular ailment. To confirm the treatment, he would prefer taking references from two qualified surgeons. In case he is unable to find two surgeons, his second option would be one surgeon and two general practitioners who are plain MBBS doctors.

Similarly in financial transactions, two men are preferred. Since financial responsibility is shouldered by men, they are expected to be well versed in financial transactions as compared to women. As a second option, the witness can be one man and two women, so that if one of the women errs the other can remind her. The Arabic word used in the Qurân is Tazil which means confused or to err. Many have wrongly translated this word as â to forget. Thus financial transactions constitute the only case in which two female witnesses are equal to one male witness.

However, some scholars are of the opinion that the feminine attitude can also have an effect on the witness in a murder case. In such circumstances a woman is more terrified as compared to a man. Due to her emotional condition she can get confused. Therefore, according to some jurists, even in cases of murder, two female witnesses are equivalent to one male witness. In all other cases, one female witness is equivalent to one male witness. There are about five verses in the Qurân which speak about witnesses without specifying man or woman.

While making a will of inheritance, two just persons are required as witnesses. In Surah Maidah chapter 5 verse 106, the Glorious Qurân says:

"Oh you who believe!
When death approaches any of you,
(take) witnesses among yourself when making bequests."
[Al-Qurân 5:106]

two just persons of your own (brotherhood)
or other from outside if you are journeying
through the earth and the chance of death befalls you."
[Al-Qurân 65:2]

Two persons endued with justice in case of divorce.

"Four witnesses are required
in case of charge against chaste women,
[Al-Qurân 24:4]

There are some scholars who are of the opinion that the rule of two female witnesses equal to one male witness should be applied to all the cases. This cannot be agreed upon because one particular verse of the Qur’an from Surah Noor chapter 24, verse 6 clearly equates one female witness and one male witness:

"And those who launch a charge
against their spouses, and have (in support)
no evidence but their own -
their solitary evidence can be received."
[Al-Qurân 24:6]

the consummation of marriage with a girl as soon as she attains puberty

This is wrong, a girl is Islam has a full right to marry when ever she wants and with who ever she likes, and no can force her to do anything....the marriage will then obviously be after she attains puberty.